Elk Creek Disc Golf
Appomattox, VA

whorley · im an addict Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 301 : Items

I have an idea to start a PDGC handicap system derived from the rounds we play in our weeklies, BRAWLs, PDGAs and tournaments. We would decide on course par or SSA, then derive a handicap from these scores. These handicaps would mimic the ball golf system which is calculated from your best rounds ( top 25-50%) instead of using most/all of your rounds like the PDGA system. With these we could run tournaments based on handicaps among other things.

Andrew offered to enter these scores and start working on this system. Any comments, suggestions, or ideas?
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bdjustva · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:13 am Post subject:

Sounds interesting.

I pulled up the "rules" that our golf league uses. It is 96% of the difference between your average and par. You have to have 3 scores to establish a handicap. With these scores, they use up to the last 8 where if you have:
3 discard the highest 1
4 2
5 2
6 3
7 3
8 4

I've seen other leagues where you only get about 90% of the difference between your average and par.

The idea with the handicap is that (if you play to your average or a little better) you should have a chance to win every time out. If you play a little worst, you will probably lose.

It would make the distribution of the tags a lot more random. I have'nt been at it very long, but it seems to change to the way that they have been used in the past. Instead of trying to get better than someone else to take their tag, you are trying to play better than your average to be able to beat them. Not necessarily bad, but different.

Brian J.

bdjustva · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:22 am Post subject:

Something else that I thought of was the point about tournaments. It definately makes them more competitive. Today when I go out for most of the tournaments, I know that I don't have a chance to win. Its fun to participate, and see how far I can get up the chain, but have no chance to win. With "accurate" handicaps, that would not be the case. If I play better than my average, then I should have a good chance to win.

Typically, the golf tournaments that use handicaps award prizes for both the low net and low gross scores. And, you can only win one of the prizes with the low gross being the better prize. They usually alternate 1st place gross, 1st place net, 2nd gross, etc.

The biggest problem in these tournaments is that they have no record of your past scores, so they are taking your word at what your handicap should be. In a lot of cases not everyone is entirely honest about their true handicap Shocked

21730 · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: Handicap!

Vee-Dub,
I like the idea and hope this is the future of disc golf, a handicap system instead of ratings based system, whose many flaws have been exposed over the years (what will be the cutoff's next year?). I am also in favor (and agreement) of the course SSA being the same set number every time and not an evolving figure that changes from round-to-round, tournament-to-tournament as it is now per the PDGA.
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NoMoreTinCup · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject:

Someone needs to write this down for me, so I can understand. I think I get it, but I am not sure. Jeff, I like the idea that the SSA changes. How else are you going to reflect on the weather/wind etc? Should those factors not be considered? Totally interested in this discussion. Vince, it's your thing, do what you want to do, let me know how I can help. KP
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yankeditright · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject:

A rating based on course par instead of who you beat would be much better. And I can't say that, having a good day, the opportunity to win tournaments without being the best that day doesn't appeal to me. However, I'd still rather beat a player on actual strokes.

21730 · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:10 am Post subject:

KP, the fexlible SSA number is a must for the way the PDGA player ratings are calculated. This is, like you said, needed to account for conditions, weather, etc. And when your rating is calculated, the system looks at ALL of your rounds dating back 1 year (except for your really bad ones which they drop,this is kinda vague to me). A handicap system requires the SSA to be set, plus it does not look at all of your recorded rounds, just you best half or so. This way, the tournament with that really windy couple of rounds, or the one where it rained on you in the afternoon gets dropped from the calculations and doesn't affect your number at all.
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NoMoreTinCup · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject:

The fog lifts slightly. I don't think that I would like to be beaten by someone who had more strokes than me. I can see applications for this system, like pro vs. am individual stroke matches, where the am should get a jump, but not in a large feild. I suppose it could be fun to try, but does your handicap reset after every round? Once a month? I have many questions. KP
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3PUTT · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:08 am Post subject:

If I win via Handicap...well, I still lost.

Arnie

bdjustva · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject:

Typically the handicap is revolving around the last X number of scores. This would be a lot more complicated at different courses since they all play different. I think the Golf courses use a "slope" rating that tries to rate the difficulty of a course, but I don't know how you would adjust the handicaps with it.
Brian J.

NoMoreTinCup · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject:

I try to keep my thinking and my disc golf seperate. KP
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yankeditright · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject:

21730 · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject:

Is this still being considered?
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TheOldDog · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: A note on Ball Golf Handicaps...

Just a point, here. In ball golf, handicaps are sometimes used to set flights. Similar handicapped players shoot together, but the individual handicaps are not germane to the scores. In other words, you're grouped according to handicap, going in, but strokes are strokes for determining winners. This prevents, theoretically, people from lying about their handicap. Doesn't always work, of course.
I like this discussion and idea. I do have some concerns about the SSA being set, but as long as it's a level playing field (which is the point) it shouldn't be too tough to do the math. As I see it, the problem is comparing apples to oranges- only rounds played on a particular course are relevant to the handicap for that course. Someone who played Peak's View all the time could have a great handicap, that is completely irrelevant to their handicap at Sontag or Elk Creek. and vice versa. Lay out the whole plan, let's see the details...